Monday, October 15, 2007

A Happy Saturday with Our Lady

My dear friends, I’m quite touched to have been invited by my friends at Orthfully Catholic to post on his blog. I’ll spare you introductions, I’m sure that in my ranting posts you will see more of the real ‘me’ than any introduction will show.
I went, last Saturday, to the Rosary Crusade of Reparation. Well, to be honest, I didn’t do the crusade, I arrived late and was only present for the closing hymns etc at the Brompton Oratory.
The crusade, I hear, was wonderful, gloriously devotional, rosaries and scapulars, medals and statues wherever one looked. The closing few minutes which I saw, were lovely, really prayerful, which was powerful given the full church. Before benediction of the most Blessed Sacrament, Our Lady was processed down the nave, with the congregation singing and waving handkerchiefs and fliers (I particularly appreciated this touching, almost Mediterranean show of piety).
A jar in the day, however, was being confronted by a leaflet wielding member of the SSPX, encouraging me to read a pamphlet titled “The time bomb of Vatican II”. I’ve seen this leaflet being handed out at other Catholic event and it riles me. The procession was not a traditionalist event, it was a traditionally Catholic event, it was not a schismatic event, it was a procession between two faithful Catholic churches in London, it was not a partisan event, it will have united liberals and conservatives in love of Our Lady, so, why were the SSPX present, bringing scandal and disunity to this gathering of the faithful.
I took this man to task, asking if he thought it appropriate, while the Holy Father was working to bring about the healing of the Lefevrist schism, to hand out vile tracts which blaspheme the Holy Spirit and make a mockery of the Church’s on-going tradition. Unfortunately this man was unable to answer.
Despite this meeting, the day was fun and eventful. I think the father of the Oratory, who encouraged people not to clap Our Lady, has won the “phrase of the day” saying “Don’t clap Our Lady, as she knows you love her, and it’s not our custom in this country”. It had me laughing all the way home.


Anonymous said...

You certainly have a point of view - yet whether it has truth in it is another matter. You speak as it you had the truth within you. Shrill words like "disunity" do not bring unity. A welcoming gesture to those who honor the Blessed Mother would be more appropriate toward unity.

Hermit in the World said...

I agree of course. If, for examle, this schismatic society were to have marched in the procession, a visble sign of unity, praying with the Church, honouring Our Lady then I wouldn't have had a problem.
Rather, they handed out unhelpful booklets which make Catholics shaky in their faith and trust in the Holy Church.

Pilgrimage of Grace said...

Whether it has truth could be another matter indeed. No members of the Society were present; SSPX is a Society of priests. Perhaps a dozen lay supporters of the Society took part in the procession, and a five of us handed out "Time Bombs of the Second Vatican Council" outside Westminster Cathedral. Of course, Hermit would not know. He was not there.

I was the person who handed out a small remainder of pamphlets after leaving the Oratory. Hermit certainly did not approach me and 'take me to task'. Everyone took them very graciously. Mmmm. Very strange indeed.

Pilgrimage of Grace said...

Well that's certainly a strange post. FSSPX is a priestly society and none of its members were present.

Around a dozen or so of its lay supporters did take part in the Rosary procession, and five of us handed out copies of "Time Bombs of the Second Vatican Council" outside Westminster Cathedral. Eight hundred were handed out. A grand total of two people complained. But Hermit would not know, of course. He didn't attend the Procession.

Now it just so happens that it was me who handed out a few more pamphlets after leaving the Oratory. Not one person raised any objection within my range of hearing or vision. Mmmm.

Clare said...

If only "orthful" Catholics could follow the Pope's example, and show a bit more generosity towards the SSPX.

Ottaviani said...

I don't think its helpful to use words like "schismatic" when reffering to the SSPX, especially when Rome is now tempering its own words when describing them. In an interview with 30 Days magazine, in Feb of this year, Cardinal Hoyos said the following:

Q: Does the Indult advance an ecumenism “ad intra”?

A: Please, accept that I reject the term “ecumenism ad intra”. The Bishops, Priests, and Faithful of the Society of St Pius X are not schismatics. It is Archbishop Lefebvre who has undertaken an illicit Episcopal consecration and therefore performed a schismatic act. It is for this reason that the Bishops consecrated by him have been suspended and excommunicated. The priests and faithful of the Society have not been excommunicated. They are not heretics. I do, however, share St Jerome’s fear that heresy leads to schism and vice versa. The danger of a schism is big, such as a systematic disobedience vis-à-vis the Holy Father or by a denial of his authority.

A more charitable way with said person would have helped.

Orthfully Catholic said...

Pilgimage of grace,

Indeed I received a pamphlet from someone outside the Cathedral and by the time I had seen what he gave me he had disappeared. I was with Hermit when he received a pamphlet from the same person and I witnessed him 'taking him to task'. There were actually two people outside the Oratory, one at each gate, it is possible that you were at the other gate - we turned right when leaving the church.

Orthfully Catholic said...


I agree with Cardinal Hoyos that the individual members of SSPX are not schismatics but the Society is a schismatic group, which is why the Pope is trying to bring them back into communion. If they weren't in schism they would be in communion.

Hermit in the World said...


thank you for your comment. I must say that while the laity who attend the SSPX mass centres aren't technically in schism, they aren't obviously in communion with the Church.


the Holy Father is showing great generousity towards the SSPX, and I will too. However, I object to antagonistic actions like handing out strange leaflets outside Catholic Churches.

Lee said...

It is certainly true that the Church is generally using more conciliatory language about the SSPX. It is also true that not everyone who associates with them is necessarily a schismatic.

BUT in Ecclesia Dei, John Paul II judged that the actions of Lefebvre, Fellay, Tissier de Mallerais, Williamson and de Galarreta constituted "a schismatic act" which accordingly incurred excommunication.

In addition, he noted the "grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church" and warned that everyone "should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church's law."

These formal statements of the Church's Supreme Legislator cannot be "erased" by an interview given by a Cardinal to an Italian magazine.

So, while not everyone who associates himself with the SSPX is necessarily excommunicated, he places himself in peril - especially if he formally adheres to the schism.

Ottaviani said...

thank you for your comment. I must say that while the laity who attend the SSPX mass centres aren't technically in schism, they aren't obviously in communion with the Church.

I'm afraid that is not what the Cardinal President of the Ecclesia Dei commission said. He said that the priests and members were not excommunicated - period. We should not act more Catholic than the Pope in this issue. Like I said, to be using the words "schismatic" isn't helpful and quite double-standards. After all, hasn't the church after Vatican II stopped referring to Protestants as "heretics"?

I was handed the tract as well and have read it. There isn't anything heretical about it - it actually addresses some questions about the excesses of false ecumenism and liturgical travesty we are now in.

Pilgrimage of Grace said...

Orthfully Catholic,
"There were actually two people outside the Oratory, one at each gate, it is possible that you were at the other gate - we turned right when leaving the church."

Thank you for clarifying. You are correct. Apparently pamphlets were handed out at the other gate as well.

Yes, I was standing at the left side gate as one leaves the Oratory. It is a shame that Hermit did not attempt to "take me to task" rather than a pensioner. I would have had plenty to say.

Perhaps you should consider that were it not for the absolutely necessary position taken by the so-called "schismatic" FSSPX, it is very unlikely that you would have had the privilege of being able to listen to Fr. Large speak of the traditional Mass and sacraments during his sermon.

When justice is done and His Holiness publicly acknowledges that the so called "excommunications" are invalid I fear that you, and those of your disposition, will feel rather foolish.